Tell us about your community growing up. Looking back, how did they shape who you are now?

I grew up in two places: Until sixth grade, I lived in northern California and went to school in a multi-ethnic environment. We then moved to Arizona, where there were very few Black people in my neighborhood and school. I was often the only Black student in class in high school. Curiously, this made me more interested in the character of the people that I met than what they looked like – I did not make assumptions, positive or negative, about people based on the shade of their skin. This background has helped me in my legal and judicial career to judge each case (and person) individually.

Describe your journey to law school. What motivated you to apply?

After college, I worked as a White House intern, and then as a financial consultant with an international accounting firm. I was somewhat torn between business school and law school, but at some point, decided I eventually wanted to be a Special Agent with the FBI – a goal I did not ultimately pursue, but which was responsible for getting me to the University of Texas School of Law in the Fall of 1996.

What was your law school experience like?

I entered law school during the aftermath of the Fifth Circuit’s opinion in Hopwood, which curtailed the use of race in law school admissions. Given my experience in high school as often the only Black student in class, I was prepared for a similar experience in law school (which it was to a lesser extent). It did not affect me, as I am not the type of person who is particularly interested in racial classifications.

I absolutely loved law school. I loved the challenge raised by looking around and realizing that I would have to work very hard just to be in the top half of the class. Law school was the first time in my academic career that I was forced to work hard in school just to get a B. I loved being around so many people that I thought were more intelligent than me. Just as important, I had a lot of fun! I played intramural sports and spent a lot of time with the friends I made in my first-year section. Beyond “the law,” I can credit law school with teaching me many things but learning that much of success in law is the willingness to take risks and “go for it” ranks very high on that list.

Did you know about appellate work in law school? If not, when and how did it first get on your radar and why were you drawn to it?

Ha! This question made me literally laugh out loud, because I used to make fun (internally) of people who were interested in appellate law. You could conclude then that I knew about appellate work but had little to no interest in it. I started law school with the goal of being an FBI agent, and left law school wanting to be a federal prosecutor trying white collar and public corruption cases. I was not drawn to appellate work until I was a state district judge more than 20 years after law school graduation, when I learned that there would be a vacancy on the Court of Criminal Appeals that would be filled by the Governor of Texas.

Tell us about one of your appellate cases that you found particularly meaningful.

I was the author of the majority opinion in State v. Baldwin, 664 S.W.3d 122 (Tex.Crim.App. 2022), which clarified the requirements for a search warrant application to examine the contents of a cellphone seized incident to an arrest. The Court held that to search a cellphone seized incident to arrest, the government, assuming the holder does not consent, must show that the phone was used in a crime, not merely that it was possessed by someone implicated in a crime of the type whose perpetrators usually use cellphones.

How often do you encounter Black people in the appellate field? Why do you think that representation is important?

I do not often encounter Black people in the appellate field. I think representation is important because I believe strongly in qualified people following their interests. When I encounter anyone, regardless of color, who believes he or she is unable to pursue a career interest because of their color, or other factors not relevant to their interests or aptitude, I feel the need to encourage him or her to chase their dreams and not allow irrelevant matters to discourage them from doing so.

What advice would you give to a law student of color who aspires to be where you are now?

You are in law school, so the hardest part is behind you. At this point, whatever has happened in the past, your skin color is no longer a significant barrier to succeeding in law, and in my opinion, believing it is renders you a prisoner of your own imagination. As I often tell our daughter, 1) you cannot let what other people think of you, or what you *think* other people think of you, determine what you think of you, and 2) if you don’t try, the answer is always going to be “no.”

What’s one thing law schools and/or the appellate bar can do to ensure our highest courts are representative of all our communities?

Get the word out to all law schools and all their students about appellate law. Encourage law students interested in legal research and writing to practice, practice, practice. Mentor all law students who have the ability and interest in appellate practice. (I guess that was three things!) While this is happening, recognize that is not going to happen overnight, and there are no quick fixes. Forcing square pegs into round holes or trying to coax round pegs out of round holes is not the answer.